Posts by Max Divergent

30

Question-- Should I inform the Sheriff??

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

for those of you who dont already know by now, the sheriff's deputy who told us to stop picketing last thursday works for the very same department that i do.

she works patrol, and i work corrections.

i remember when she used to work in the jail a few years ago, but im not sure if she recognized me.

Max Divergent

Don't get in a pickle with the Sheriff?We didn't want to argue with Deputy Mannequin.

Sounds like a song... "I told the sheriff... but I did not tell the deputeeee..."

Most cops will just quell a 'situation' the quickest, easiest way possible.... and if that's telling you to rack-off, then that's what they'll do. You'd have to find out what your rights are (attorney, ACLU... the cops will tell you their version of the law) and assert them with the local police - preferably in advance of your protest action, ummm... 'do all things decently and by arrangement'

24

DF'd and dirty looks

by loosie in

i have a friend she is disfellowshipped.

she suffers from depression.

she wants to go back.

Max Divergent

Our hall used to broadcast on FM for the security attendants not to miss any spiritual food while they patroled the car park... most of us tuned it to FM radio instead, of course. We'd catch each other out by talking down the microphone (message, ritual abuse... whatever). No respose = listening to the radio and some (mock) stern spiritual council was on its way... :-)

But, no, sittting in the car is still isolating oneself from the spirit of the congo so probably wouldn't be good enough.

Of course, isolating yourself from the spirit of the congo is a very good idea..... best done from home, a local resturaunt, a friends place, anywhere but the parking lot of a KH...

Cheers, Max

20

To Shun Or Follow The American System?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

a recent poll suggests that over 90% of americans believe in god.

this compares to around 48% of brits who believe in god's existence.. even the devoutly religious tony blair doesn't want britain to follow in the religious footsteps of the usa, as he clearly states here as he risks incurring the displeasure of george w: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4369481.stm.

so, as a person whose criticism of the us is confined mainly to it's penal system, i was wondering this: do you think that the more religious a country becomes, the harsher it's treatment is of those who err, harsh punishment being seen as a christian virtue?.

Max Divergent

There?s as much evidence for the existence of god as there is for the idea that harsh punishment reduces crime? so if people have faith enough to believe in god, then they might have as much ?faith? (or is that credulity?) to believe that throwing away the key or throwing the switch is a good idea.

Nationality has nothing to do with it - it's got more to do with whether people accept 'common sense' ideas uncitically, or require good evidence to support their beliefs.

136

Sitting or Standing?

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

a recent thread brought this to mind:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/86271/1.ashx.

i had a male friend, when i was a jw, who was taught by his mother to always sit when he pee'd.

Max Divergent

On Indian trains they have two toilets, in one booth its the Asian squat style (usually fairly clean), in the other it's the western stool style. In there the floor is always flooded with urine and feaces... maybe the locals get confused and just go the floor option when confronted with a stool?

I sit if drunk or otherwise mentally comprimised - saves cleaning up...

16

Blair and the other champaigne socialists

by Simon in

.

just one of the reasons i despise the man.

like the rest of the bunch of hypocrites they have abandoned all the ideals that they once claimed to have and are now more than happy to have their nose in the trough.. for all the criticism of thatcher (who transformed the country from the tatters it was left in under labour) they have made things much, much worse in terms of difference between rich and poor.. notice too how labour donators seem to have particularly done well, as has mrs blair - her latest contribution sapping money from local education and giving it to fundamentalist muslims in bogus human rights legalities.. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=398578&in_page_id=2.

Max Divergent

they have made things much, much worse in terms of difference between rich and poor.

How would it have been differnet under the other party? Maybe the difference would have increased even more?

136

DA-ing Announcement in the Society's New Book

by Mark in

jw
friends

the society's new book 'organized to do jehovah's will', to be released in the congregations .

on the 20th of march, introduces a change in the df and da announcements.

announcements will read the same: "[name of person] is no longer one of jehovah's .

Max Divergent

I think Willyloman is right, but I'd like to add some speculation on the legal side of it as I think our freedoms are fairly safe if we're already faded away into the wind.

The free exercise provision* only allows religionists to curtail the freedoms and rights of people within the religious community that they willingly joined (as the Judge said in Boer v WTS). It doesn?t mean a religion can reach out and harm people (by defamation, stalking or other unlawful harassment) who clearly aren't of their religion and don't consent to the rules of that religion, even if they once were and once did.

So what? Well, I still remember a WT from around 1991 or so describing in gory detail the inherently demonic nature of people who are DF or DA (and now No Longer... NL?). So we know saying you're "DA/DF/NL" is a proxy for calling you "the son of the Devil" or similar or worse as published many times over many years.

I think if we've clearly left the org some years ago** and don't by our actions consent to the religious rules of the JW's anymore, then they'd be putting themselves at risk of an action in slander WITHOUT RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROTECTION if they made a DF/DA/NL announcement (and thus called you nasty, nasty names) after you've clearly left their religious community.

The trick will come when they 'adjust' the procedure and meaning behind the NL process. They have smart people working on all this and they'll probably do a good job of it. But we need to remember our rights as free citizens of liberal democratic countries - they think they're liteally above Ceaser's law but they're wrong.

Max

* it doesn?t matter much if it's US or British originated law as the basic principle is universal in the western world.

** per the elders book of due WTS process, also an OKM of about 1975 defined 'some years' as 3 years

72

High rates of depression in Org.

by chuckyy in

i noticed after being a jw for a while that many members of my congregation were having to take antedepressants.

(i counted at least 30 out of 100).

after a few years i too began to have bouts of depression and problems with anxiety.

Max Divergent

steve2 - For some scientific evidence of higher rates of metal illness amongst JW's, see;

Spencer, J. (1975)The Mental Health of Jehovah's WitnessesBritish Journal of Psychiatry 126:556-559.

(Spener is a real scientist and, AFAIK, never been a JW)

My copy is from the Journal, but online copies are readily available too... one source is: http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw72.html

Report: "Ostracism: The cruel power of silence"

by Max Divergent in

jw
friends

thought some may be interested in this report on the effects on a person of being ostracised by friends, family and others.

there's also a set of psychology papers from a conference on the same topic here: http://www.psy.mq.edu.au/staff/kip/announce/sssp04_drafts.html.

regards, max .

Max Divergent

Thought some may be interested in this report on the effects on a person of being ostracised by friends, family and others. There's also a set of psychology papers from a conference on the same topic here: http://www.psy.mq.edu.au/staff/kip/Announce/SSSP04_Drafts.html

Regards, Max

31

Do you think that the "U.N." will one day ban all religions?

by JH in

jw
friends

for many, religion is the root of terrorism and war.

since the beggining of creation or evolution, mankind is at war not only for religious reasons, but economical ones too.

oil is a good example.

Max Divergent

Yah, but look at the rest of the world.
S

None of the western world outside the red states of the US has much in the way of organised religion actually changing the way people live (maybe there are pockets - Northern Ireland maybe...)... it's been defeated by the advancemets of the western world... hence spreading western though through the world in a way of ridding us of religion without banning it.

6

Another atheist thread

by Globetrotter in

the "what kind of atheist are you" thread sparked a thought and i didn't want it lost, buried deep inside the thread, nor did i want to hijack the thread.

so, my question is this... .

if god does not exist, just exactly who/what is the god of the bible and how did he/it get elevated to such status?

Max Divergent

I think the story of the bible is a manifestation of 'the struggle' that people have been obsessed about forever - Labour v KCapital; Freedom v Tyranny; "'Left' v 'Right'"; Ying v Yang; Progressive v Conservitive...

Atheism (along with beards and blue jeans) are more likley to be associated with the progressive/liberal end of the world, the dead opposite to the arch-conservitive WTS.

IOW, Satan the Liberal v Jehovah the Conservitve....

Max - who now realises he must be a devil worshiper, not a liberal, bearded blue jean wearer